Turkey and Greece have a historically contentious relationship and have a longstanding dispute over islands in the Aegean Sea on top of disagreements over other issues such as maritime boundaries. of 1897. September 30, 2022. 8 others win big in Arizona. I wouldn't call it though a victory. In the wake of the 2008 global financial crisis, though, Greece went bankrupt. However, the new Greek nation only included a relatively small part of European Greek lands (there were also large Greek populations in mainland Turkey (Anatolia), and other parts of the Ottoman Empire). When hes not reporting, John is likely searching for the best pizza slice in Brooklyn or watching/playing soccer. This aspiration was called the Megali Idea (Great Idea) which sought to bring all Greek-speaking lands into the modern Green nation). Dendias said that allowing Turkey to continue threatening Greece would run the risk of yet another conflict in Europe, in an apparent reference to the war in Ukraine. France, Italy and the UAE have held joint military exercises with the Greeks in the areas Turkey disputes off Crete and Cyprus, signalling that Greece will have friends in a fight. How would Cyprus fare during all that? Under the rules of the UNs Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the lions share of east Mediterranean waters goes to Greece and Cyprus. The Turkish coast guard has been mobilised as well. Greece sees Turkeys attempt to flood the Greek land and maritime borders with refugees last March as experimentation with hybrid war. Cyprus soon hopes to be. This Cypriot conflict almost caused a major war between Greece and Turkey (which at that time, as now, are technically allies in the NATO alliance). Greece also managed to send an airborne battalion to Cyprus to reinforce the original regiment. In 1974, following a Greek coup of the then-independent government of Cyprus, Turkey launched two invasions of Cyprus. Russia's advantages: Powerful navy, one of the best anti-air corps in the entire world, well trained and equipped modern airforce, massive manpower advantage, substantial economic size advantage, manufacturing base for the military is in country. Is Turkish military stronger than Greek one? Striking a deal consistent with international law may no longer be politically possible, and it is entirely possible that Turkey will make a tactical appearance at these talks in order to derail them. Could Greece win? Online Gambling Guide, Tips & Advice. In letters dated Monday and Tuesday to NATO, the EU, and the UN that were reported onby the Associated Press, Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias called for all three institutions to rebuke Ankara over Erdogans comments. See TEU article 42.7: If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. Eventually, Greece and all of the Greek-speaking lands around the Mediterranean came under the rule of the powerful Roman Empire, which adopted many facets of Greek culture. The European Union is clearly steering away from taking a stance and seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. You will find 45 Different po. (If they listened to people like me they would) If there was a total war where Turkey wanted to conquer Greece, Greece would probably win in the end. All rights reserved. For four decades Turkey has threatened Greece with war if this should happen. This began almost 400 years of war between the Byzantine Greeks and the Seljuk Turks and their successors, the Ottoman Turks. Oruc Reis seismic research vessel, one of the 5-6 research ships in the fully equipped and multi-purpose in the world, is seen as it is ready for a new seismic research activity in the Eastern Mediterranean in Antalya, Turkey on July 22, 2020. But first lets define what we mean by Greek and Turk in this historical look back. He warns, however, that the EU has a long way to go if it wants to be taken seriously by more raptorial powers on the world stage: If we want to exercise greater geopolitical influence, we must leverage our power, which is economic. The Israeli Navy will also try to help keep Turkish naval forces out of the Mediterranean around Cyprus and Crete, with the help of the Greek Navy. After this war, Crete also became part of Greece. Now in 21th century the important thing is influence. The peace treaty ending this war called for all Turks in Greece, and all Greeks in Turkey to leave and go to their respective homelands. The big Plus in this conflict would be Greeces allys who are able to totally destroy turkey militarily and economically. Although if it turned into a ground war between Turkey and Greece, I suppose it's possible that some of the Balkan and Eastern European states could actually send troops to fight with Greece. Greece and Turkey may be heading toward a military showdown in their current dispute over access to gas and oil deposits in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, but this is only the latest in a long history of war and conflict between these two neighbors with nearly a thousand years of bad blood between them. Greece has maintained a combat regiment in Cyprus since the 1960s, and this unit engaged in combat with invading Turkish forces in 1974. Smaller EU members in Turkey's neighborhood like Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus would probably also play a significant role. The Greek population of the large island of Crete launched many revolts against Turkish rule including: the. Greece is calling on its allies to condemn Turkey over recent aggressive rhetoric from Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has hinted at the possibility of open conflict as tensions rise between the two countries. War Between Greece and Turkey: The Air Component. Could Italy defeat Greece? In what was seemingly a veiled threat of an invasion or attack against Greece, Erdogan warned that Turkey could "come down suddenly one night.". Frigates shadowed each other so closely, that on 12 August two of them collided when a Turkish frigate performed a manoeuvre across the bows of a Greek one. Diplomatically, too, Greece scored well. (October, 1912-May 30, 1913), in which Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Montenegro combined to hand the Turks a huge defeat, and take over almost all of the Ottoman Empires remaining lands in Europe. Both players are pretty evenly matched, really, with the very same or comparable equipment forming the backbone of both forces. Turkey has a slight advantage over Greece's navy but France has shown willingness to send in it's navy. Anyway, something is yours to keep, only if you can defend it. Turkey would be playing at a disadvantage, though, because it couldn't bring its substantial land forces to bear, and its military is already overextended through actions in Syria and Libya. Turkey's army is larger, and has combat experience from their long guerrilla war against Kurdish rebels in eastern Turkey and from Turkish army incursions against the Kurdish bases in northern Iraq and northern Syria. However there's no scenario where Greece would be involved in a war and not have allies, or where Turkey would invade Greece and not have multiple fronts to deal with simultaneously. A war between Greece and Turkey, as assessed by the experts. The list of countries suffering from Turkish. Its euro area partners bailed it out with cheap loans, contingent on Greece performing the most painful budget-balancing exercise of any developed economy since the Second World War. All were defeated by the Turks. A war between Greece and Turkey might seem impossible now, I don't think it will 10 years from now. This is not a vote of confidence in the upcoming exploratory talks with Turkey. There could be a situation where EU solidarity trumps NATO commitment, especially since NATO is not all that popular in the two biggest EU states. This thread has been locked by the moderators of r/CredibleDefense. The Lausanne Treaty set the borders of modern Turkey in 1923, after the Greeks lost a war to reclaim western Asia Minor. The 20th century began with Turkey carrying out a genocide against Greek Christians in Anatolia beginning in 1914 and continuing until after World War I. *The purpose of this subreddit is to learn for ourselves, and to bring better public understanding of related topics. With the help of Britain, France, and Russia, the Greeks gained their independence in 1832. The new US defence pact with Greece opens the way for massive infrastructure investments in its military bases there, more joint exercises and investments in Greek defence industries. This was the Third Greco-Turkish War. The Turkish crisis expedited them, because Turkeys belligerent behaviour in the region has alarmed everyone. In what was seemingly a veiled threat of an invasion or attack against Greece, Erdogan warned that Turkey could come down suddenly one night.. Taking advantage of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Greece launched a full invasion of Turkey, with the goal of reclaiming ancient Greek lands along the Turkish west coast lost to the Ottomans in the 1400s. FOLLOW Historyguy.com War and Conflicts News on Twitter and get the latest updates on this and other world conflicts. You're ignoring the role of the EU here, which has its own mutual defense treaty. This was a clear-cut, unambiguous success for Greece.. Greece declared that it will double its territorial waters in the Ionian Sea to the full 12 nautical miles allowed under international law, a clear signal of its intent to do the same in the Aegean and off Crete. *This is not at all intended to be US centric; posts relating to other countries are highly encouraged. Please dont reply on something you have no idea about. Though both countries are NATO members, Turkey and Greece have a historically contentious relationship and have a longstanding dispute over islands in the Aegean Sea on top of disagreements over other issues such as maritime boundaries. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . How the World's Deadliest War Ended. What would happen in this war? Turkey would be playing at a disadvantage, though, because it couldn't bring its substantial land forces to bear, and its military is already overextended through actions in Syria and Libya. John Haltiwanger is a senior politics reporter at Business Insider. Same will happen to Cyprus also. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. How the War in Ukraine Could End. For the next 400 years, Greece was ruled by the Turks, but Greece was a restive possession, seeing many failed uprisings against Turkish rule over the centuries. This could be decisive, but Turkey could quite easilly take and hold a few islands I think. Balkans can support Greece in other ways than sending a navy even if no land forces are involved. of 1841, 1858, 1866-1868, 1875-1878, and 1889. All were defeated by the Turks. The US may be showing favour to Greece, but it is unlikely ever to intervene in a war between NATO allies. A new revolt on Crete in 1896 led to the Second Greco-Turkish War which is also called the Thirty Days War of 1897. [The Greek-Turkish standoff] is not something thats happening on the other side of the world. Air forces are a major asset in a naval conflict in the small pond that is the aegean, as well as Ashm's and AA. turkey vs egypt war, who would win. As such, if there were going to be any future conflicts between Turkey and Greece, it would be most likely to happen while other NATO and EU members are tied up in some other conflict. *This is a subreddit dedicated to collating articles and opinion pieces relating to national security issues. In a letter to NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, the top Greek diplomat said, The Turkish attitude is a destabilizing factor for NATOs unity and cohesion, weakening the southern flank of the alliance at a moment of crisis, per the Associated Press. It's a bit irrelevant to ignore any and all alliances and geopolitical setting when discussing this, because if things were different wellthings would be different. Which players would get involved? At least till now, this is not the case. . If everything goes on like before, which rarely happens either. France probably doing some shooting, while others lend Greece financial, material, and intelligence aid. Greeces military is smaller, but more modern. The Answer Is Yes By Michael Rubin 19fortyfive.com September 08, 2022 Coming Soon: A Greece - Turkey War? . Turkey wants to play the role of regional hegemon and within that kind of great ambition, to have a hand in exploiting regional natural energy resources.. Turkey VS Greece: How much longer can Greece and Turkey avoid war? Turkey has 251 fighter jets, mostly variants of the F-16 and some F-4 Phantoms, while Greece has a fleet of 233 fighters, which is more diverse and . John has a BA in History from St. Marys College of Maryland and an MSc in International Relations from the University of Glasgow. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States. We have to be more present and more demanding when we formulate policy in our immediate neighbourhood. And that's short- to midterm. Now, in 2020, Greece-Turkey tensions are at their highest since 1974. His blog is www.thenewathenian.com, Powered by GreeceHighDefinition / Privacy Policy. While the West Roman Empire fell to barbarian invaders, the Greek-speaking East Romans continued on for another thousand years. What would a war with North Korea look like? The Greek civilian populations along the Turkish west coast were also driven out, with much death and destruction. The will to fight differs. It would appear, from all this, that war has all but been declared in the Aegean. Greece had to surrender some minor border areas in the peace treaty and to pay heavy reparations to the Turks. I think they would have to deal with constant challenges from stronger European navies even if they "stole a march" in the beginning. Greece warns another European war could be on the horizon as Turkey hints at the possibility of an invasion. The Greek campaign was launched primarily because the western Allies, particularly British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, had promised Greece territorial gains at the expense of . If relations with Turkey continue to go sour the US has to have ready military answers if its military footprint in Turkey is reduced, says Tziampiris. NATO's Article VI explicitly limits the scope of Article V to attacks in North America or Europe. A Can Iranian Drones Turn Russias Fortunes in the Ukraine One Soldier's War - Potential Insights into the Russian Ethiopia-Tigray. For now, there is de-escalation, but expectations for the outcome of these talks are low. It depends on the navy I guess. The timing of these escalations is coincident with diverging economies. The tricky part was how [to] get from a situation where youre on high alert to a situation where diplomacy takes the lead but without giving anything, without having to change your positions or compromise before diplomatic negotiations. In this video we have made a military comparison between two countries. 39 Exocet AShM and Harpoon armed ships, with the AB-212 OTH/ASW helicopter. Legally, it cannot do so. Whoever manages to dominate the skies will have an undisputed advantage over the other. During a visit to Sarajevo on Tuesday, the Turkish leader doubled down on this threat. This year Turkish coast guard vessels openly harassed Greek ones with hot pursuits which nearly caused collisions. The Cost of the U.S. Arms Trade. NATO isn't a guarantee of peace. Erdogan is actively osmanizing Turkey and pushing it further away from the Western cultural sphere. Instead of patrolling along the length of the Asia Minor coast, they launched sorties towards the puddles of international water that lie in the middle of the Aegean, testing Greek reactions. Last summer, Greece and Turkey came closer to war than they have done since 1974, when Turkey invaded Cyprus. Qamar Munawer. How are Russians even gonna attack Turkey and why? women's plus size packers apparel. Obviously, all of this took place while the US was tied up in the Vietnam War, and the European Union hadn't been created yet. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The winner will be decided by the great powers, mostly USA. Rallying national sentiments could help them secure a win. The Chechens: Putins Loyal Foot Soldiers. Greece and Turkey have gone to war since they joined NATO, and NATO did not intervene militarily or revoke membership. "Look at history, if you go further, the price will be heavy," Erdogan said. So, let's assume that NATO stays out of it, and it's entirely Turkey v. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Erdogan over the weekend accused Greece of occupying demilitarized islands in the Aegean, warning that Turkeywill do whats necessarywhen the time comes. Home page/Blog; History. Greece makes no claims on Turkish territory and wishes to settle its EEZ with Turkey based on the UNCLOS Treaty, as well as expand its territorial seas to 12 nm as she is within her rights to do, but the Turks declared a casus belli against Greece if it does. His coalition partner Devlet Bahceli, who leads the National Action Party (MHP), has often called on Erdogan to claim 15 Aegean islands he says Lausanne never explicitly awarded to Greece. possibility of war between greece and turkey, What Places Did Odysseus Travel | Troy, Ismaros & More, The Impact of Ancient Greece History on the Modern World, 9 Places In Europe That You Must Visit At Least Once In Your Life, Rare Byzantine coin may show a 'forbidden' supernova explosion from A.D. 1054, Thessaloniki metro finds to get very own museums, More than 300,000 artifacts found during Thessaloniki metro construction, Ancient Athenian Tablet Turns Out To Be 2,000-Year-Old Graduation Yearbook. The EU is not usually seen as a military alliance but its fundamental treaties do have some strong language about supporting and aiding a member state that comes under a military attack. Or do you think that could be achieved too? Your email address will not be published. Also, in the past few years, Turkey has . It disagrees that Greece, like the worlds 166 other signatories of the law, is entitled to 12 nautical miles of territorial water off its mainland and island coasts. Turkey says, no way. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page. Turkey and Greece to see who is more powerful. John Psropoulos is a independent journalist based in Athens who has covered Greece and southeast Europe since the fall of communism. That's the basic rule that this world goes by. Israel vs. Turkey: As tensions grow, Israeli vs. Turkish military power assessment suggests that the IDF is a more effective fighting force. Both Greece's Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis and Erdogan are facing tough upcoming general elections. Within hours, the Greek and Turkish navies had deployed throughout the Aegean and east of Crete. . This fact led Greece to constantly seek to re-take more land from the Ottoman Turks. They could probably take half of them over night. Erdogan doesnt like any of the treaties since Sykes-Picot and Lausanne. Actually we have a pretty good chance of defending what is ours. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. January 30, 2022 . They (Turkey) might have a superiority in numbers (after all, they are a larger country), but numbers alone cannot define a military outcome unless there is a great imbalance to the power game. Turkeys has a larger army but the fighting would be centered in a narrow strip with terrain that heavily favors a defender. Turkey itself hasnt any allys worth talking of and even if they get help from Russia would it not make any significant difference because Russia has no real way to use its full land-capabilitys if the Black Sea is blocked by French and Greeks Navi. Also an attack on/invasion of Northern Cyprus by Greece or Greek allies could not be claimed as an attack on Turkey as it's not recognised as such. As the prospect of war nears anyway, Greece showed that it is not cowed. This is hello, I'm new to Greece and I'm not sure how electricity Press J to jump to the feed. Technology. Greece fared much better in the First Balkan War(October, 1912-May 30, 1913), in which Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Montenegro combined to hand the Turks a huge defeat, and take over almost all of the Ottoman Empire's remaining lands in Europe. However, the Cretan revolt, which continued until 1898 did result in the Great Powers forced the Turks to remove their military from the island, and set up an autonomous Cretan State, which, while still technically under Ottoman rule, was, in effect, self-governing. Manage Settings That shaved away a quarter of its GDP and halved its defence expenditures to from 7.88 billion euros in 2009 to 3.75 billion euros in 2018. Turkey disagrees with the UN Law of the Sea, and the international courts that uphold it, about whether Greeces 9,000-odd islands should have a continental shelf. Casualties would be devastating for both sides. The action is not always military. ALSO, why would Turkey need a contigency against Russia? Look at history, if you go further, the price will be heavy, Erdogan said. And there is the perennial Greek concern that the EU, for purely financial reasons, will neither develop a military presence of its own nor sacrifice trade with Turkey. I agree on your measures. Nobodoy would win. Original Reporting. The Turks began as nomadic tribes that, as they moved westward, conquered the more settled lands they encountered. Kostas was not alone in leading Greece to a win without his brother Giannis. Could Greece and Turkey Go to War? Turkey has intensified every tactic short of war in the Aegean. For example, in the event of a PRC invasion of Taiwan drawing the US military and possibly many European allies into the South China Sea, Turkey might take the opportunity to destroy Greek ships and aircraft in order to assert dominance over Mediterranean oil and gas resources. By deploying its navy at full strength, apparently within four hours, Greece demonstrated that it is neither weak nor intimidated. As the Greek and Turkish militaries face off at sea and in the air, the big question is, will these tensions ignite into a fifth major Greco-Turkish War? I believe Europeans now understand the situation much better than they did six months ago, said Mitsotakis after the latest meeting of heads of government. If they attack any island I am pretty sure our mechanized units will move deep into eastern thrace. No pls. Well Nato very possibly wouldn't get involved and Russia may not get involved for fear of invoking a Nato response. Israel and Egypt are now energy independent. If the dispute was a land border then they might be able to surprise and quickly overwhelm opposition, and then hunker down and wait out the diplomatic fallout. This aspiration was called the Megali Idea (Great Idea) which sought to bring all Greek-speaking lands into the modern Green nation). This month, US secretary of state Mike Pompeo broke with decades of tradition by visiting Cyprus and Greece without visiting Turkey or the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, recognised only by Turkey. After this war, Crete also became part of Greece. The Ottoman army, recently re-organized and with German advisors, easily defeated the unprepared Greek military. , in which Greek military officers aided the rebels in the Ottoman province of Epirus. Both of them are a part of the Nato. no substantial Turkish force is in Libya, only Syrian fighters and some support/training personal are sent there. Turkey could use superior forces at the start of the conflict to make some small gains but would be overrun after France and Italy join the conflict. Both countries have beefed up their naval and air forces there. Greek culture goes back thousands of years, to include famous Greek city-states such as Athens, Sparta, Troy, and others. Both countries will first try to achieve air superiority. The first war, also called the Thirty Days' War, took place against a background of growing Greek concern over conditions in Crete, which was under Turkish domination and where relations between the Christians and their Muslim rulers had been deteriorating steadily. Israel and Egypt are also holding military talks with the Greeks. This would never happen, but assuming it did then this is an easy question because of one simple fact: Greece and Turkey are both NATO members, The victim would invoke NATO Article 5, and the aggressor would get their ass handed to them, if they were stupid enough not to back down immediately. Turkey is a country located in Southeastern Europe and Southwestern Asia (that portion of Turkey west of the Bosporus is geographically part of Europe) with an area of 783,562 km2 (land boundries: 2,816 km and costline 7,200 km). The Fourth Greco-Turkish War (March, 1921-1922) followed the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War One. Last year they doubled again to 4,800 and are set to outpace that level this year. Who would win? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Since Erdogan came to power in 2002, he has more than tripled Turkeys GDP. But sea access is more fluid.
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